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BW: [RMT] Advice is needed
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BW: [RMT] Advice is needed
Bordeaux
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#1
04-09-2012, 09:58 PM (This post was last modified: 11-24-2014, 09:05 PM by Hana Song.)
So I've been breeding some pokemon to construct my first competitive team in awhile and here is my idea as to what I want to use so far...


[Image: 635.png]
Hydreigon
Naive / Levitate / Life Orb
104 Atk / 240 Spec Atk / 164 Speed
-Draco Meteor
-Earthquake
-Fireblast
-Outrage

[Image: 593.png]
Jellicent
Calm / Water Absorb / Leftovers
252 HP / 36 Def / 220 Spec Def
-Scald
-Recover
-Toxic
-Shadow Ball

[Image: 034.png]
Nidoking
Timid / Sheer Force / Expert Belt..?
4 HP / 252 Spec Atk / 252 Speed
-Earth Power
-Sludge Wave
-Ice Beam
-Thunderbolt

[Image: 376.png]
Metagross
Adamant / Clear Body / Choice Band
252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def
-Meteor Mash
-Bullet Punch
-Hammer Arm
-Pursuit / Zen Headbutt

[Image: 472.png]
Gliscor
Impish / Poison Heal / Toxic Orb
252 HP / 184 Def / 72 Speed
-Toxic
-Earthquake
-Taunt
-Protect

[Image: 637.png]
Volcarona
Bold / Flame Body / Leftovers
240 HP / 216 Def / 52 Speed
-Quiver Dance
-Fiery Dance
-Bug Buzz
-Morning Sun

Well this is my idea as to what i would like to have as a team. Please give me your best advice as I believe it is much needed. This is my first competitive team I've created in over 2 years so I expect to be introduced to many new counters for things.
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ninJAS
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#2
04-09-2012, 10:20 PM (This post was last modified: 04-09-2012, 10:39 PM by ninJAS.)
Ok first off use Life Orb on Nidoking because thanks to his ability he gets a massive 60% damage boost with Life Orb equipped and receives no recoil damage from it either!

Other than that I don't see a whole lot of problems with your team right now but I'll look at it a little closer here in a few minutes and edit if I find anymore problems....

Edit:!!!

Just realized that you have a rather large Water weakness (Gliscor, Volcarona, and Nidoking) which is not good due to the high amounts of Rain teams running around the metagame nowadays. The only move you even have that hits Water types for SE damage is Nidoking's Thunderbolt....and if he runs into a faster Water type then he is hurting....So you will definitely need to fix that....

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Hana Song
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#3
04-09-2012, 10:41 PM
In my opinion, mixed Hydreigon is the weakest set that it can run, with Specs/Scarf and Sub being the top ones. As well as that flaw, the Speed EVs that you currently run only allow it to speed tie with opposing Scrafty at +1, which will be a problem for your team, seeing as nothing seems able to take it on effectively. As a replacement, I'd go for a fully-dedicated Hydreigon, not messing around with any physical attacks.

Nothing much to say about Jellicent, apart from pointing out the fact that, with 0 EVs in Speed, it's going to get Taunted by anything that carries it, which happens to be quite a few Pokémon. Opposing Jellicent will laugh at you, your only attacks being either useless or easily healed off with Recover, and Skarmory will say nasty things behind your back until you pour tea on them. Putting 44 EVs in Speed allowed you to speed tie with standard Jellicent, and outspeed specially defensive Tyranitar, and bulky Scizor. This gives you a chance to burn them with Scald or Taunt them, which would help greatly. Being half of a great core this generation, I would suggest fitting in its partner, Ferrothorn, somewhere on this team, too.

Nidoking is a good Pokémon, underrated definitely, but the set you're running could do with a little tweaking. First of all, get rid of Sludge Wave, really. Yes, it gets STAB, but it's only super-effective against one type - Grass - which isn't exactly common, and has pretty terrible coverage in general. I'd suggest Flamethrower over it, which would also aid in dealing with Pokémon like Scizor and Ferrothorn that that set would have trouble with otherwise. The item, too, is just wrong. Why use an Expert Belt when you could use a Life Orb and get no recoil damage from it?

Nothing much to say about Metagross. Simple, effective, fits in with the rest of the team. Consider testing out a Scizor, though, as it is more useful in more situations than Metagross. Not a suggested change, just a suggestion as to what to test.

Standard Gliscor, fine, but something that I do like to do with them is run a little more Speed than Smogon suggests. Giving it 80 EVs in Speed allows it to outspeed most Celebi variants, as well as TormenTran, which can be a pain for many teams. I'd recommend squeezing Ice Fang into the set somewhere, as Flying-types and Pokémon with Levitate aren't exactly uncommon, and, if we're honest, not a lot of your team can switch in too easily. To me, it seems like Gliscor is the most replaceable member of your team, unless you're overly worried about Terrakion, but that's just my opinion.

The Volcarona set could do with some changes. Morning Sun is great, yes, but its usefulness does drop in any weather that isn't sun. With weather teams being almost a must if you with to succeed in this generation, running a Morning Sun Volcarona that isn't on a sun team itself is, a lot of the time, a waste of a moveslot. If you're determined to keep it a bulky set with a recovery move, however, I'd recommend a ChestoRest set, but if not, replace Morning Sun with Hidden Power Ground or Rock, and give it a more offensive EV spread.

Something else I noticed, too, is no rapid spinner. With a Volcarona on your team that might have issues with recovery, it is pretty important to have something to help with that, and I would recommend that too.

Suggested changes:
Spoiler:
Sub Hydreigon > Mixed Hydreigon.
248 HP/212 Def/48 Spe > 252 HP/36 Def/220 SpDef on Jellicent.
Flamethrower > Sludge Wave on Nidoking.
Life Orb > Expert Belt on Nidoking.
Consider Scizor > Metagross.
248 HP/180 Def/80 Spe > 252 HP/184 Def/72 Spe on Gliscor.
Consider Ferrothorn > Gliscor.
ChestoRest or Offensive Volcarona > Morning Sun Volcarona.

Movesets:
Spoiler:

[Image: 635.gif]
Hydreigon (M) @ Leftovers
Trait: Levitate
EVs: 56 HP / 252 SAtk / 200 Spd
Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
- Substitute
- Dragon Pulse
- Focus Blast
- Fire Blast/Surf

[Image: 212.gif]
Scizor (M) @ Choice Band
Trait: Technician
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 SDef
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- U-turn
- Bullet Punch
- Superpower
- Pursuit

[Image: 598.gif]
Ferrothorn (M) @ Leftovers
Trait: Iron Barbs
EVs: 252 HP / 88 Def / 168 SDef / 0 Spe IV
Relaxed Nature (+Def, -Spd)
- Spikes
- Leech Seed
- Gyro Ball
- Protect

[Image: 637.gif]
Volcarona (M) @ Chesto Berry
Trait: Flame Body
EVs: 160 HP / 252 SAtk / 96 Spd
Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
- Quiver Dance
- Rest
- Fire Blast/Fiery Dance
- Bug Buzz

[Image: VN3xUdv.png]

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Bordeaux
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#4
04-10-2012, 03:37 PM
I appreciate the advice given to me by both Vex and ninJAS, I'm going to remove Gliscor and use the suggested Ferrathorn set. Also I'm going to replace Volcarona and find a suitable rapid spinner to place in that spot of my team. I will also apply the changes to Hydreigon and Nidoking. Any Ideas for a good rapid spinner that will fit within my team?
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ninJAS
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#5
04-10-2012, 03:53 PM (This post was last modified: 04-10-2012, 03:54 PM by ninJAS.)
I always like running a Hitmontop for my spinner....there aren't really a lot of good Spin options though....Hitmontop, Blastoise, Cloyster, Claydol, Donphan, Forrtress, Starmie, Tentacruel, and Excadrill are pretty much your best options. So look over them and see which would fit your team better.

Also to help see if your team has any major defensive issues with it you can go here:

http://pokemon.marriland.com/black_white/team_builder

And it will show you what your teams total weaknesses and resistances are ^_^

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Bordeaux
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#6
04-10-2012, 05:00 PM (This post was last modified: 04-10-2012, 05:01 PM by Bordeaux.)
(04-10-2012, 03:53 PM)ninJAS Wrote: I always like running a Hitmontop for my spinner....there aren't really a lot of good Spin options though....Hitmontop, Blastoise, Cloyster, Claydol, Donphan, Forrtress, Starmie, Tentacruel, and Excadrill are pretty much your best options. So look over them and see which would fit your team better.

Also to help see if your team has any major defensive issues with it you can go here:

http://pokemon.marriland.com/black_white/team_builder

And it will show you what your teams total weaknesses and resistances are ^_^

Thanks for the link, I forgot that was there. I think Hitmontop may be my best bet as for adding a spinner to my team. Do you have any suggestions as for Evs and movesets other than the ones listed on smogon?
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ninJAS
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#7
04-10-2012, 05:08 PM
I always liked the defensive spinner variant of Hitmontop and I'm pretty sure Smogon has it.

252 hp, 252 def, 4 sp def

Rapid Spin
Foresight
Hi Jump Kick (WATCH OUT FOR PROTECT)
Stone Edge

That's what I always use Tongue

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Hana Song
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#8
04-10-2012, 05:29 PM
No, no, no, no. You're giving a spinner - a Pokémon that you'll want to keep alive two moves with bad accuracy, one of which can kill it. I'm going to do something that I usually don't, and say that Smogon's definitely right with the suggested set.

Spoiler:
[Image: 237.gif]

Hitmontop (M) @ Leftovers
Trait: Intimidate
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SDef
Impish Nature (+Def, -SAtk)
- Foresight
- Rapid Spin
- Close Combat
- Sucker Punch

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ninJAS
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#9
04-10-2012, 05:36 PM (This post was last modified: 04-10-2012, 05:39 PM by ninJAS.)
Stone Edge allows it to hit ghosts who hide behind subs though like Gengar and Mismagius otherwise they can put up a sub while Sucker Punch fails then continue to set up while you use foresight and by the time you hit them with Close Combat they KO you quite easily so IMO Stone Edge is better than Sucker Punch even though it is priority simply because of the threat Sub Ghosts pose.

And by using Close Combat you decrease your own defenses making your spinner go down faster.

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Hana Song
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#10
04-10-2012, 05:40 PM
Not really. Most Ghost-types that hide behind Subs (SubDisable Gengar, mostly) are just a lot quicker than Hitmontop - something that Sucker Punch can remedy. Close Combat seems like the vastly better option because, honestly, after a Foresight, even a Jellicent would fear it. That would undoubtedly force a switch which, unless your opponent is packing more than one Ghost-type for some reason, would put a pretty good dent into anything that doesn't resist it.

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