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Sticky: PokéSun League & Showdown! Rules
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Sticky: PokéSun League & Showdown! Rules
Giovanni
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#21
03-09-2013, 05:14 PM
(03-09-2013, 05:03 PM)Cyborg Pride Wrote: It's almost as if I'm supposed to read your incredibly demeaning capitalised sentence in a friendly way and not a way that makes it seem like I'm some kind of troglodyte in your eyes. How about stop painting me as some kind of horrible individual that's out to get at you and make you seem stupid, I am not like that.

The Gym Leaders here put themselves at more of a disadvantage than those that use mono-type teams. They tell you their entire teams, they set themselves nearly impossible limits as to what to choose, it's only fair that we, the challengers, sacrifice too in order to maintain fairness in battle.

You bring up some imaginary mathematics showing how weather effects are more important than the limits Gym Leaders place on themselves, claiming that I assume -4 + 0 = 0 (edited from -7 by the way, thank you very much - I am paying attention), therefore I make it obvious that I can do simple mathematics in return. We have never talked before, we are arguing, you mentioned the word "friend" first in what I can only assume - yes, I'm admitting that - was a sarcastic gesture. I reciprocate it.

"It's almost as if I'm supposed to read your incredibly demeaning capitalised sentence in a friendly way and not a way that makes it seem like I'm some kind of troglodyte in your eyes. How about stop painting me as some kind of horrible individual that's out to get at you and make you seem stupid, I am not like that."

i put it in all caps because you didn't pay attention the first time i said it, and you still aren't. and once more, putting words in my mouth, i haven't once said anything negative about you, can we please move on from that now? its not like i'm asking for only the challenger to be allowed to use weather, weather would be for both sides.

"(edited from -7 by the way, thank you very much - I am paying attention)"
yes, i was thinking of the games where there were 8 gyms, but you say there are 4 here so i'm going with that. i see you are paying attention, now if you could focus it on the main topic (weather) that'd be great.

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#22
03-09-2013, 05:17 PM
I am aware of that fact, I did say I have been paying attention, but the point still remains that it weighs in as more of an advantage to the challenger than the Gym Leader. Now, if you don't mind I'm afraid I'm going to have to be the bigger gal here and just walk away from this frankly dull, monotonous and pointless pseudo-argument. If you wish to talk more about the subject, I will be more than happy to carry it on via VM or PM. Have a nice evening.

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Giovanni
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#23
03-09-2013, 05:21 PM
ok... so, now that that's aside, could i get a mod or gym leaders opinion on making weather legal?

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Legacy
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#24
03-09-2013, 05:58 PM (This post was last modified: 03-09-2013, 05:59 PM by Legacy.)
(03-07-2013, 11:37 PM)Roosterman Wrote: i'll just say i think this no weather rule is pretty stupid. it is legitimate strategy, i can get banning drizzle+swiftswim or drought+solorbeam but banning weather flat out just takes away half the strategy.

Have you ever tried playing without weather?

Think of it in this way; the league is NOT standard OU. Most of the possible ideas for gyms mean weather for the gym leaders isn't possible.

On top of this I actually feel that weather actually takes away half the skill factor of the metagame if you have your own weather up. In most circumstances a well built weather team (which lets be honest, isn't THAT difficult to do) can destroy the majority of gym options available (such as monotype, dualtype and even monocolour for the most part) regardless of the skill of the Gym Leader.

Also (and this is purely from my point of view, not from the league) I honestly think it's better for challengers to step AWAY from weather, what with weather being dominant in the OU metagame. It shows a different side to the metagame, and allows challengers to actually see that (since if you tried making a clear skies team and ladder with it, you'd be faced with Politoed and Tyranitar/Hippowdon left right and centre). In my eyes the lack of weather actually adds MORE strategy to the game, since the opponents team becomes considerably less predictable than it would be in standard play.

The rule on weather can be reviewed if there is enough to consider it, but the fact is that Gym Leaders can have their own rules in place, and I for one would ban weather in my gym anyway because I feel it over-dominates the metagame and is slowly killing it.

If you feel incredibly strongly that the rule should be reviewed, and if you can find other people on here who have the same view then we could put up a poll to have an overall consensus on the subject.
Giovanni
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#25
03-09-2013, 06:06 PM
(03-09-2013, 05:58 PM)Legacy Wrote:
(03-07-2013, 11:37 PM)Roosterman Wrote: i'll just say i think this no weather rule is pretty stupid. it is legitimate strategy, i can get banning drizzle+swiftswim or drought+solorbeam but banning weather flat out just takes away half the strategy.

Have you ever tried playing without weather?

Think of it in this way; the league is NOT standard OU. Most of the possible ideas for gyms mean weather for the gym leaders isn't possible.

On top of this I actually feel that weather actually takes away half the skill factor of the metagame if you have your own weather up. In most circumstances a well built weather team (which lets be honest, isn't THAT difficult to do) can destroy the majority of gym options available (such as monotype, dualtype and even monocolour for the most part) regardless of the skill of the Gym Leader.

Also (and this is purely from my point of view, not from the league) I honestly think it's better for challengers to step AWAY from weather, what with weather being dominant in the OU metagame. It shows a different side to the metagame, and allows challengers to actually see that (since if you tried making a clear skies team and ladder with it, you'd be faced with Politoed and Tyranitar/Hippowdon left right and centre). In my eyes the lack of weather actually adds MORE strategy to the game, since the opponents team becomes considerably less predictable than it would be in standard play.

The rule on weather can be reviewed if there is enough to consider it, but the fact is that Gym Leaders can have their own rules in place, and I for one would ban weather in my gym anyway because I feel it over-dominates the metagame and is slowly killing it.

If you feel incredibly strongly that the rule should be reviewed, and if you can find other people on here who have the same view then we could put up a poll to have an overall consensus on the subject.

true, weather teams can be predictable, but the same can go for nearly any pokemon too. and something being predictable doesn't really ruin the game. many pokemon that are used are predictable, but they still get used, and the best players can find ways to make them unpredictable. how many people will i need for this poll to go up?

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Legacy
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#26
03-09-2013, 06:10 PM
Get about 2 people to agree with you and I'll talk it over with the other league members at our next meeting.

Honestly though, the best you'll get is the removal of the universal rule. Individual gym leaders could still ban weather if they wanted to, especially if they feel the same way I do about weather.
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#27
03-10-2013, 11:18 PM (This post was last modified: 03-10-2013, 11:22 PM by shenanigans.)
This entire conversation/argument/thing is highly amusing. Most of the Gym Leaders, if not all of them, already have personal rules banning/allowing weather. So it's like Roosterman is trying to get people to allow women to vote. :D

Edit: Throwing my two cents in here as well, I s'pose. As far as the universal rule goes, I agree with the No Weather rule. Most of the Gym Leaders /cannot/ use weather, as it doesn't match their Gym Themes. And what exactly would the point of the league be if it was a carbon copy of the OU metagame, containing nothing but weather teams? Sure, weather teams are easy to counter with weather teams. Now counter a weather team with a Mono-Dark type team with nothing but NU Pokemon and your opponent knows every 'Mon on your team. That's the situation the Gym Leaders would be facing if you allowed weather. So yeah. Using weather teams =/= You having good battling skills.


Legacy
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#28
03-11-2013, 06:58 AM
(03-10-2013, 11:18 PM)Skye Wrote: And what exactly would the point of the league be if it was a carbon copy of the OU metagame, containing nothing but weather teams? Sure, weather teams are easy to counter with weather teams. Now counter a weather team with a Mono-Dark type team with nothing but NU Pokemon and your opponent knows every 'Mon on your team. That's the situation the Gym Leaders would be facing if you allowed weather. So yeah. Using weather teams =/= You having good battling skills.

This is exactly the point both Cyborg Pride and myself have been making.

You could claim mono-dark has Tyranitar for sand but what else does it have? Bisharp, who shares Tyranitar's crippling 4x fighting weakness? Krookodile, who is nailed by water types? And that's it. Nothing else is as good in sand as it is outside of it, making sand in mono-dark virtually unplayable. Trust me, I've tried.
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#29
03-11-2013, 09:27 AM (This post was last modified: 03-11-2013, 09:27 AM by ninJAS.)
Since I'm the head of the League I feel like I should throw my opinion in here as well XD

Weather is banned for the simple fact that any type of weather used will automatically put the challenger at an even larger advantage than they already are. Each gym is severely restricted in the Pokemon we can use as is and as pretty much everyone has mentioned already letting our opponent use weather is pretty much allowing them to walk all over us. Yes there are counters to weather teams. Odds are though that 1 team doesn't contain a counter to Rain, Sun, Sand, and Hail.

As far as I know weather is banned in all of our current gyms so I really don't see why this argument erupted in the first place BUT any GL that wants to allow weather is allowed to do so. I personally don't because I would rather have a good hard fought match without it raining, snowing, being super hot, or with sand flying all around me ^^

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#30
03-23-2013, 10:09 PM (This post was last modified: 03-23-2013, 10:19 PM by Rhapsody.)
Weather is banned because it can provide an extremely unfair advantage towards the start of the game that we collectively feel should be banned. The PokeSun league is a Clear Skies league; no further debate is needed.

There is no reason to change that rule unless the gym's leader feels like it. That rule in particular can be decided by the gym leader, anyways. No further discussion is needed, there is no intention to change the rule unless I suddenly get a flood of PMs from the gym leaders asking me to change it (I gave a clear reason as to why this won't happen).

Yes, weather does allow some sort of strategy. However it restricts the choices of what you can put on your team (without deploying some really risky movesets). We want to see originality in teams. If gym leaders wanted to be faced with weather, they have two options; go allow it on their gym, or go to the PO beta server and use the Find Battle button (pretty much all you'll ever find in OU on there is weather...).

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