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uber perish song user?
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uber perish song user?
medicham
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#1
06-08-2013, 09:40 PM (This post was last modified: 06-09-2013, 10:53 AM by medicham.)
which perish song user or supporter is the best receiver for shadow tag from skill swap? protect and substitute may be needed to help stall after perish song is used.

Spoiler:
[Image: 251.gif]
Celebi @ leftovers
Ability: Natural Cure (shadow tag)
Nature: Timid
EVs: 252 HP / 6 Def or Sp. Def / 252 speed (a more defensive spread might work better)
IVs: 31/0/31/31/31/31
- Recover
- Substitute
- Perish Song
- protect

i wanted to use celebi to receive shadow tag from skill swap because it can learn recover, so it can keep using subs as well, but it has many weaknesses including, but not limited to a common priority move (ice shard). i am not really sure how long the subs will last, but a couple of turns (not including protect) would be more than enough for a KO.

celebi could also get at least one stage increase in speed (giving it 492 speed) from a speed boost user with baton pass, protect and a focus sash. i want Blaziken to pass the speed increase and to cover for bug, dark, ice and steel types while i could have another Pokemon deal with fire, poison, ghost, and flying types with neutral and or double damage with STAB, there are many Pokemon that could fill that role (it is not really needed if i use psychic, but it would certainly help with coverage), but if i use rain and water types then i would have to use Ninjask and i think that would reduce coverage for celebi's weaknesses significantly.

celebi may or may not need the boost, in the case that it does not, this saves time to set up the perish trap. another Pokemon would have to come out before the skill swap user if i give celebi a boost. this way the skill swap user does not faint within the turns Blaziken uses to set it up. Blaziken could do some serious damage on its own let alone passing with speed boost and a focus sash.

Spoiler:
[Image: 198.gif]
Murkrow @ Eviolite
Ability: Prankster
Nature: Bold/Calm
EVs: 252 Hp / 130 Def / 128 Sp. Def
IVs: 31/0/31/31/31/31
- Taunt
- Recover
- Perish song
- Substitute
[Image: 202.gif]
wobbuffet @ Leftovers
Ability: Shadow Tag
Nature: Bold/Calm
EVs: 30 HP / 232 Def / 248 Sp. Def
IVs: 31/0/31/31/31/31
- Counter
- Magic Coat
- Encore
- Safeguard
[Image: 598.gif]
ferrothorn @ Leftovers
Ability: Iron barbs (shadow tag)
Nature: Relaxed
EVs: 252 Hp / 148 Def / 110 Sp. Def
IVs: 31/31/31/31/31/0
- Leech seed
- Protect
- Power whip
- Gyro ball
[Image: 178.gif]
Xatu @ Focus Sash
Ability: Magic Bounce
Nature: Bold
EVs: 252 Hp / 252 Def / 6 Speed
IVs: 31/0/31/31/31/31
- Skill Swap
- Roost
- Substitute
- Heat Wave

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Mitchell

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#2
06-09-2013, 09:45 AM
Moved to correct area.
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Phoenix Down
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#3
06-10-2013, 05:32 AM (This post was last modified: 06-10-2013, 08:13 AM by Phoenix Down.)
...I'm confused. Iirc Skill Swap is only usable in Double/Triple/Rotation Battles, unless you want to swap abilities with your opponent? And the latter is incredibly situational, especially if you want to get a specific ability out of the deal. You're probably better off with a trapping move instead of an ability if you want to PerishTrap, and even then it's a pretty questionable strategy.

Of course, this could just be me being an incredible noob to the current metagame, but a quick skim over google search results suggests otherwise?

EDIT: OH. Doubles. Why did this just come to me now orz

Anyway, what's the point of Skill Swapping Shadow Tag in the first place? With both Pokemon out on the field, wouldn't it be simpler to just use Perish Song, switch out the PS user and then wait until the countdown is almost finished before taking out the Shadow Tagger?

But this strategy does have its risks, you realize. The opponent won't just be a sitting duck while you're setting up your really-quite-long chain of Skill Swaps. If they land even a single KO, then the battle is lost, no? I think this is a bit gimmicky and just an unstable way of playing the game. It might work against some, but most teams in circulation on PO/PS would probaby figure out one way or another to work around this. My two cents.
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medicham
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#4
06-10-2013, 08:41 AM (This post was last modified: 06-10-2013, 08:50 AM by medicham.)
(06-10-2013, 05:32 AM)Phoenix Down Wrote: ...I'm confused. Iirc Skill Swap is only usable in Double/Triple/Rotation Battles, unless you want to swap abilities with your opponent? And the latter is incredibly situational, especially if you want to get a specific ability out of the deal. You're probably better off with a trapping move instead of an ability if you want to PerishTrap, and even then it's a pretty questionable strategy.

Of course, this could just be me being an incredible noob to the current metagame, but a quick skim over google search results suggests otherwise?

EDIT: OH. Doubles. Why did this just come to me now orz

Anyway, what's the point of Skill Swapping Shadow Tag in the first place? With both Pokemon out on the field, wouldn't it be simpler to just use Perish Song, switch out the PS user and then wait until the countdown is almost finished before taking out the Shadow Tagger?

But this strategy does have its risks, you realize. The opponent won't just be a sitting duck while you're setting up your really-quite-long chain of Skill Swaps. If they land even a single KO, then the battle is lost, no? I think this is a bit gimmicky and just an unstable way of playing the game. It might work against some, but most teams in circulation on PO/PS would probaby figure out one way or another to work around this. My two cents.

yes i know they will be wailing on me while i set this up. that is why i chose these Pokemon, they are not all that easy to 1HKO and very defensive. the goal is to set up a tank with shadow tag. Wobbuffet cannot use protect or sub and is quite easy to defeat. Wobbuffet in my opinion is not that great of a wall because of it's move pool. so why not pass shadow tag onto a really defensive Pokemon like Ferrothron and use a really annoying perish song user that will have priority (Murkrow is the only one that can without skill swap). not to mention both Ferrothorn and Xatu can hold their own, if need be Xatu can pass shadow tag on to Ferrothorn. so it's like a wall with back up wall with a back up wall. it may not be easy to do and may take some scoping and prediction and just critical thinking in general, but i think with enough experience i will be able to do this (almost) flawlessly one day. or to completely throw this out of the way and conserve turns i could use another shadow tank, Wobbuffet is not the only one with shadow tag. if i did that i still might want to apply this strategy and have a better wall than Wobbuffet with a back up and a back up back up wall. i really just want to see what all i can do with skill swap. it might seem pointless to some people, but i want to try something different, find the limits of this strategy, break my own limits and master this weapon. just like a real trainer would try to become a master, that is my very (cliche) goal.

i would like to try many and master many combinations and turn a Pokemon's weakness into its strength or just make any Pokemon that much stronger. now i want to see what ability Wobbuffet could really use. i know celebi would be great with solid rock ( just about any Pokemon is, particularly celebi because it has many weaknesses). but i am just researching for now and i could be way off about celebi (and everything else too) because it only cuts off 25% of super effective attacks. that may not be enough

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Phoenix Down
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#5
06-10-2013, 09:00 AM
So clearly you've thought this through a lot more than I thought you did. Well done on that account, at any rate. However, I still don't think the end result is worth the struggle. So maybe after a carefully crafted ploy you miraculously made work nets you two dead Pokemon on your opponent's team (and, say, two as well on your side in order to get there); what then? Say your current Shadow Tag wall is Ferrothorn, and then they bring out an Infernape. They obliterate your Ferrothorn, and you have to repeat the whole chain all over again, all the while finding a way to avoid having that Infernape in front of you from destroying the rest of your team. It's extremely difficult, and barely possible, imo.
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#6
06-10-2013, 09:49 AM
I'm going to say this one more time, this is a gimmick strategy, and will not do you any good no matter how you go about making a team themed on it. Teams utilising effects of moves such as Gravity and Trick Room can be useful, and incredibly difficult to counter effectively, but not Skill Swap, no matter what you may think about it. If you're looking for something 'edgy' or 'adventurous', try Trick Room, as it is actually viable, but not a horrible move with sub-par effects, countered easily, that's only going to be making the Pokémon you're talking about worse.

And for the record, avid Celebi user here, it is absolutely fine as it is. Its stats and movepool compliment its typing extremely well, and even though it has a good number of weaknesses, that does not make it a bad Pokémon by any means. It just needs the right support. If I were you, I would focus on creating solid teams around something instead of trying to 'fix' Pokémon's abilities.

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medicham
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#7
06-10-2013, 11:56 AM
(06-10-2013, 09:00 AM)Phoenix Down Wrote: So clearly you've thought this through a lot more than I thought you did. Well done on that account, at any rate. However, I still don't think the end result is worth the struggle. So maybe after a carefully crafted ploy you miraculously made work nets you two dead Pokemon on your opponent's team (and, say, two as well on your side in order to get there); what then? Say your current Shadow Tag wall is Ferrothorn, and then they bring out an Infernape. They obliterate your Ferrothorn, and you have to repeat the whole chain all over again, all the while finding a way to avoid having that Infernape in front of you from destroying the rest of your team. It's extremely difficult, and barely possible, imo.

(06-10-2013, 09:49 AM)Shock Wrote: I'm going to say this one more time, this is a gimmick strategy, and will not do you any good no matter how you go about making a team themed on it. Teams utilising effects of moves such as Gravity and Trick Room can be useful, and incredibly difficult to counter effectively, but not Skill Swap, no matter what you may think about it. If you're looking for something 'edgy' or 'adventurous', try Trick Room, as it is actually viable, but not a horrible move with sub-par effects, countered easily, that's only going to be making the Pokémon you're talking about worse.

And for the record, avid Celebi user here, it is absolutely fine as it is. Its stats and movepool compliment its typing extremely well, and even though it has a good number of weaknesses, that does not make it a bad Pokémon by any means. It just needs the right support. If I were you, I would focus on creating solid teams around something instead of trying to 'fix' Pokémon's abilities.

haha i am another Icarus

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